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[Music]
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ladies and gentlemen the world cannot pretend that the conflict playing out today
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is one limited to the perimeter of ukraine it’s not it’s completely global
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and who will play the next move will putin push a west weak west even
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further will nato move beyond hollow condemnations or will the next move be played by china
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starting with taiwan let’s debate
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the last 17 days of russian aggression in ukraine has seen emerging world power
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equation and it seems that there is a new world order and american order is
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ending i’m announcing that we will join our allies in closing off american airspace
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to all russian flights further isolating russia and adding additional squeeze on
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their economy
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through the russian ukrainian war america has been trying to prove its position and now the vice president of
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united states along with the secretary of defense may be on a world tour to consolidate a block
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french president emmanuel macron has raised concerns in the eu’s summit on friday and since then he has been making
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calls to president putin to discuss the war situation turkey hopes to mediate and is not
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directly aligning with america
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uh
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unapologetically
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essentially yoga [Music]
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as russia is facing sanctions saudi arabia and uae are trying to make an
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opportunity in this crisis the saudi arabian and uae leaders are not taking
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calls from america’s president and in the interviews they are saying that we do not care what biden thinks of us
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even the ukrainian president is questioning the west
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whatever is the result of the war but one thing is very clear that the world is changing and the era of american
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supremacy is over let’s debate
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[Music] okay shawn is on location he’s moving in uh somewhere close to ukraine i think i
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had him live but i may have lost the audio link i think there’s a convoy going behind him he wants to show us something yes yes silvano would you live
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yes sean over to you well in fact
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well in fact i don’t know we’re reporting live from kiev oblast now this is the place where we have seen the kind of shelling that’s taking place a lot of
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movement of the convoy from the ukrainian side and right now the latest
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that has come in uh from the ukraine’s ministry of internal affairs they’re still maintaining that russians haven’t
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been able to enter the center of a cave they’re still saying 20 kilometers away
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in fact the advisor of to president zelinski a short while back has also released a video uh trying to indicate
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that everything is in normal with a cup of coffee the advisor of the president was walking on the streets of kiev so
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there is an attempt that is being made right now by president zelinski’s administration that they are in control while at the
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same time they’ve also put out this indication that they’re willing to negotiate the advisor just a short while
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back said that they’re willing to negotiate with russia they’re saying that all the other talk options even with the foreign minister is still open
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but they are certainly not very happy with the fact uh that belarus being the very place uh for those negotiations to
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take place because they believe that belarus has already aligned with russia they’ve given their territory to the
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russian troops to carry out attacks on ukraine so they’re not okay with the fact that these talks or these peace
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talks are going to take place in belarus they’re looking at another location altogether jerusalem becoming one of the
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options open to the zelinski administration for any sort of talks that are going to take
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place with russia so yes they’re saying talks can happen without any sort of precondition
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well i think i think it’s a sign of uh it’s a sign of the growing pressure sign of the growing pressure without a
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doubt shawn sign of the growing pressure on the on the ukrainians uh moving on to
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my panel i’ll i stay safe there we’re gonna come back to you sean stay safe and reporting uh joining us from from
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quebec city is the professor of political science and uh uh from from the laval university in
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quebec city canada eric duchess to chesney sorry
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peter zalmayev of the eurasia democracy initiative is joining us from kev
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on this evening when uh when zelensky is reaching out to putin for talks
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brahmachalani also with us zelansky says to putin meet me in
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jerusalem and putin’s propaganda machinery responds
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dr wailawad senior and political analyst from joining us from delhi
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uh russia’s machinery response by saying that ukraine’s mi24 helicopter
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three uavs including a bairakhtar drone have just been
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have just been downed by the russian forces so russia is moving in cynthia farahat is an author and fellow
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at the middle east forum tatyana kokoreva is deputy chief of sputnik websites
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and andrew k p leong is giving us the china perspective now first of all
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tatyana can i get you into the debate with peter
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from kiev shouldn’t putin respond
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after all zelensky wants to meet him the israeli prime minister is willing to
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negotiate is willing to negotiate
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jerusalem is a neutral location and putin all he has to do is get on a
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plane fly down to jerusalem meet zelinski
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and sort it out this is a reach out from zelinski isn’t it tatiana
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it’s a good reason let’s hope so that it’s a reach out uh
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but the mean in the meantime i mean that happened a couple of hours ago uh
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i dare say we’ve waited for president zilenski to actually reach out
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for days and days now so well he can wait a couple of hours
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hopefully um we still have to hear from the israelian side because
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it just literally was the announcement by the ukrainian president and nobody
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else he said that he proposed the meeting and that he proposed it to uh
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the israeli prime minister we haven’t heard from the israeli prime minister yet as far as
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i see right now and we’ll have to wait and see what comes of
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it i’m you know i i don’t think that anybody can predict the answers from either side
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just yet israel has to agree first and foremost you know
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peter is there a sign of weakening nerves
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i will i will submit to you quite the opposite is happening uh first uh well obviously you know civilians are
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suffering uh in mariupol right now i mean this is no idol matter for me okay where i am right now i had a lady come
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to me she’s you could probably hear her she’s broken down in tears that john i want you to hear the this lady’s tears
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what is happening in my room right now as we’re speaking sitting in our comfortable offices it’s absolute
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chechnya it is aleppo it is stalingrad people are trying like 200 000 hostages
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essentially that the russian forces have surrounded they’re shelling the city they’re starving these people and you know why
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that’s happening because putin is clearly not achieving any military victory he thought he would just walk
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into ukraine waltz in and be greeted with flowers everyone hates russia in ukraine everyone hates putin they you as
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indians understand what it is like to live in a democracy once you live in a democracy even with a neighbor like
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china you indians do not want to be a part of china imagine if china wanted to take over india indians would die would
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fight to the last man to protect their democracy and this is what’s happening with ukraine as
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imperfect as we have our democracy it’s a democracy we do not want a gulag and that’s what russia is turning under uh
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putin into you know and so uh putin is desperate he wants to bring ukrainians
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to their knees and he’s shelling civilians this is the most cowardly cowardly way to uh you know to wage a
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war he is earning eternal shame and domination for his people for for
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generations to come people this is what’s happening
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are you finished can i step in peter yeah why is yes why are civilians being targeted
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why are civilians being targeted yesterday i did ask a russian panelist that have you fallen short of russians
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that you are now depending on on on syrians to fight for you and now why are civilians being targeted
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oh not nobody’s depending on syrians to fight for us first of all second of all
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uh i love the fact that they did educate them very well in the united
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lovely states yeah it’s like a script seriously uh what’s happening in mariupol and what
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we’ve been observing for first of all let’s start from the beginning mariupol is the hometown of the notorious azov
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uh you know the years of battalion you know the neo-nazis that are wanted for war crimes in europe not just
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you know it’s not just russia who’s talking about them committing war crimes so hopefully peter you know obviously
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the russian uh side is of no relevance to you personally you know you’re playing for the
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different side but it’s the europeans who are admitting that the
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azov battalion is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity you can
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check this out you know maybe it will help you you get a better understanding of what’s going on in mario paul
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we hear from civilians within the city you know that this is of battalion they’re putting missile launchers on top
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of buildings they’re literally you know they’re not letting civilians out nobody’s targeting civilians nobody has
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targeted civilians so far and uh as to the remarks that you know president putin wanted to go in and out well look
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again and again and again if somebody wanted to get in and out we would just bombed it to the ground
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the russian army is more than capable of doing to ukraine what the us
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had done to iraq what they had done to the parts of syria that they fought in
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uh the russian military within this operation has been adamant about the importance i
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did not interrupt you so you’re not going to interrupt me peter can you stay quiet for one minute oh thank you very
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much that’s lovely uh the civilian population of ukraine specifically of marijuana i literally
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have people that i know personally there and they’ve they’ve confirmed it that the azov battalion they are in the
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hospitals and then they stage it to look like it’s been you know a hospital has been born by russians
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which is preposterous there are fake news that being that are being broken
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down to pieces you know daily we daily we see we see the same actors
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being shown as you know russian soldiers captured by the ukrainian forces we see bloggers being
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photographed in maternity wards and for some reason you know there’s a maternity ward with just one pregnant woman in it
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that happens to be ukrainian blogger and she happens just happens to be there photographed leaving it
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uh it is so disgusting what the ukrainian side is doing in mariupol
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and i think that you should be ashamed of what you’re saying right now peter
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let me say something let me say do i still have a right to reply
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yes you should ask our moderators i mean this is okay tatiana uh the entire world
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is seeing what they’re seeing okay the footage that is being shown in between us on the screen right now is footage
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provided by indian tv crews uh colleagues of our host here uh they are filming it are you gonna tell them that
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what they’re being duped by ukrainian uh actors uh they are demolishing buildings
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just so that the indian crew has the wrong idea of what’s happening the entire world is seeing it except you
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russians you know you cannot fool everyone you can try to impose a blockade on the russians and that’s
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what’s happened to prevent them from getting the information but everyone is seeing it why are you telling us that
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the sky is yellow if we’re all seeing it that it’s blue all right and one more thing you compared it you keep trying to
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bring this kind of parallels and poke americans in the eyes i’m not going to defend americans and their adventures in
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iraq okay don’t pin me to that you know by the way i’m half ethnic russian and right now i’m ashamed of that half okay
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uh but i’m not going to justify every misadventure america has had this does not exonerate
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what russia is doing right now two wrongs don’t make a right the big difference right now when it comes to
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putin’s own propaganda is that okay america was getting involved in uh you know in in the middle east he was not
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getting involved in the brotherly nation of canada let’s say putin proclaimed that ukrainians are their own people and
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now he’s bombing them because they did not greet him with flowers
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that is the end of the russian idea guys russia is not gonna russia is not gonna outlive this bloody tyrant this is the
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end of the russian project tatyana you better be looking for a job you’re already out of a job they they shut down
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sputnik they shut down russia today as the worst kinds of propaganda you are enabling a dictator you understand that
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with every passing day you’re earning you know you know they’re collecting evidence against you you and simonian
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and all these people are going to be tried in military court you’re still young you’re going to see that day you’re going to get tr you’re gonna be
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tried okay putin’s gonna be run out of town you will be held accountable you better think about it now i appeal to
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you stop covering up this bloody dictator who is like our third 21st
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century hitler i see perfect parallels between putin and hitler being under no illusion
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that this is anything else this is pure evil and it has to be destroyed this evil has to be destroyed
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tanya you are enabling evil right this is this is disrespectful i’ve only
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seen you twice and the truth you know it’s the truth what the truth
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what is the truth that i’m out of the job what is the truth right that you’re literally
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there’s no truth you’re trying to create this reality where there’s like no truth everyone has a right to his own you know
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ideas you know you can have the right to your own you know facts no i don’t think so there are
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effects and there are lies in russia is an empire of lies and it’s been exposed
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and the entire world has hate russia why why it’s not just american and
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anglo-saxons it’s everyone everyone has turned on russia everyone is the most toxic name in the world right now to be
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russian it’s a fact tanya again
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don’t tell me we don’t know each other on a personal level so i would i would
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ask of you to use my full name because i did not allow you to use my my
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my name in a shortened version first of all and i don’t care how old you are second
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of all uh the whole world minus china minus india minus the whole of asia and
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the whole of the middle east uh is not the whole world and this is exactly what we’re talking about here
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you know the end of the world order where the whole world is limited to the us and the countries that follow its
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every footstep and it is ending whether you like it or
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not we’re getting more and more evidence every single day of the fact that the
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ukraine was was swarming with weaponry was preparing
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for a full-on assault on the donbass region to annihilate the whole of the civilian population of that region
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that oh by the way but you’re calling it an anti-terrorist operation you’re not calling it civil war even you know
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because obviously you’re such a democratic country we’re killing 13
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13 000 people is it’s an anti-terrorist operation
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uh don’t you dare talk about chechnya
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and disrespect the intellect of the people who are here on this panel and
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compare chechnya to stalingrad and stalingrad and chechnya to ukraine
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the russian military has been and will be targeting the nazi formations in ukraine
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hopefully this is going to end soon but i’m very sure
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that until the last of the azov battalion and the right sector and the crimes that they’ve committed
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are very public peter i hope that you can use google well enough and there’s still obviously there’s still internet
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in ukraine if you’re still in ukraine then you can google them if you don’t
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know about them so stop talking about a democracy i know for a fact first hand how they
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hunted down russian speakers in mariupol how the rate sector was hunting down
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russian speakers in 2014 and i know this because i know people who
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were there and i know people who were tortured no i’m not going to let you speak
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so this is and i’m also you know we’re we agree on something for for once i’m also
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ashamed of that russian part of you there is a very very nice development i
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find between the two of us that i i’m also deeply ashamed about that ethnic russian part of you
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because you sold your soul to the american propaganda and you dare talk about my job
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might you find out right now that sputnik and rt have not been banned in
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the us first and foremost
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they’re not banning us they just made europe banners
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thank you thank you for the reminder i will make sure that they will ban you please do please call your employees
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once again we we talked about it in previous uh programs you said you know someone from donbass i am from donbass
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okay my mother was living up there up until 2015. do not tell me about any
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persecution my family was living there i am from there this is a pure fabrication
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and a lie none of it happened period okay none folks none zero complete
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fabrication you you’re going to kill people speaking russians
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everywhere in ukraine people speak russian the president is a russian speaker and he’s jewish and you want to
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do notify him are you are you ridiculous do you think the world will buy into this only the russians who you have put
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up informational blockade on you deprive them of all sources of objective information
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they can believe that no one believes you because everyone knows it’s a lie it’s ridic it’s also a ridiculous lie
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you know completely ridiculous i don’t think i don’t think tatyan tatiana or or peter
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that i will get you to agree on two perspectives but but couple of things out there i want to stay on this screen
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and tatiana if i don’t know if you’re seeing the screen but the pictures you are seeing on the screen
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right have been shot by my excellent
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excellent excellent fantastic world-class reporting crew on the ground
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if you want if you want wherever we have all this footage of
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homes destroyed apartments destroyed innocent people you know people who may
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have had jobs like you and a flat like yours and the internet connection that you
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have right now they might have been like that a week back tatiana those are their
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homes tatyana now imagine if someone does that to your home
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and you’re screaming to the world allow me to complete tatyana and you’re screaming to the world i’ve lost my home
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i’ve lost my family i’ve lost everything
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did i lose your video link here and and the word and and and and the world says no no that’s
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propaganda so i have hours and hours of footage i have people on the ground
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and i would only request you that while you have every right tatyana to defend your country’s strategic
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interests and play a role you see my reporter that his name is shawn sen one of india’s best journalists he’s on
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the ground he’s not making it up i’m telling you this is not artificial intelligence that has put this footage you see that reporter there these are my
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reporters right so so what i want you to tell you only as a one journalist to another is
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that please while you have every right to defend your country’s strategic interests do not put yourself into uh in
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an information vacuum where you will only believe what you’re hearing from the sources who you trust
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because that will not be appropriate and i do think that it’s not even in the long term interests of russia and i’m
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telling you tatyana this is coming from someone by the way okay and yesterday i had my former
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american officials on my program by the way peter i want to tell you right and i i i question them on their
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development of bio weapons i asked them why there were 16 bio labs on ukrainian soil i said nobody has questioned
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america’s intent designs or contrived history as i have but i just wanted to tell you that tatyana
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that you’re not being fair to the facts either so so i that was just a response to you
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and now i want to go back to the issue you raised about the change in the world order let’s go to that because there are many
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panelists waiting fact is fact is
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eric i want to come to you you know you just look at the way in which the uae
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is snubbing america sheikh mohammed bin zayed
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has refused to take joe biden’s phone calls he’s just signed multi-billion
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dollar deals with china saudi doesn’t care about you
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muhammad bill salman does not talk to biden anymore america has become irrelevant
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bennett is mediating biden is nowhere eric
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germany is bypassing america you know the german chancellor says we
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will not stop our energy imports to europe the world order is changing
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eric and it’s changing before your eyes please what do you think
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um well i think there is uh some truth to what
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you are you are saying if you’re putting uh things in the context of the the
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the war in ukraine it is true that maybe the americans have not
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necessarily taken taken a strong lead
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but it it remains to be found because you know i think that the the main question
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is is about you know uh a germanic decline uh and we have to
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uh re reflect on what is germany in in in the first place you know we
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definitely germany as the largest economic and military power which is
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still the case for the united states
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although uh you know we can talk of a a relative decline uh especially in the
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face of rapidly rising uh chinese chinese power uh but there are you know
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three ways as well now three uh elements of germany so the the first
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one is this one i’ve just defined you need to have the opportunity and you need to have the uh the power
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uh you need to have the the willingness i and i think what brings the ukrainian war if we compare under biden and what
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was under trump previously we can say that uh now the americans are actually
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taking a more important role you know uh but probably not as much as uh some uh
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me may wish or a decried and the third aspect and i think that’s where we’re
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coming to your uh to your question there has to be willingness to follow uh the
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lead of the aegemonic power and so so that’s where maybe you know we
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we can decry some of the leadership of the americans it is no surprise
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that uh when china reached out to um
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to macro and schultz and and trying obviously i think that was you know i would say strategically a
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smart move on their part not trying to get the american involved in trying to find a peaceful settlement to the war in
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ukraine and trying to divide europe and america divide the trent transatlantic
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alliance but it remains to be seen now the war i think that the war itself in
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ukraine is uh is bringing the united states closer to uh to um uh
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to europe no no i think i think the way okay so
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the other way of looking at it i’d like to get cynthia in and andrew in the other way of looking at it cynthia
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is that no one trusts america anymore it is the great american fall america does not deliver on its promises
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it has led zelensky up the garden path and dropped him like a hot brick
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anthony blinken on 7th march said that they will send fighter jets
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to ukraine on nine uh then biden shot down the idea joe biden said that
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uh it is russia if if russia targets americans in ukraine we will respond forcefully now america instead of
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sending troops has allowed its citizens to fight in ukraine and sending a mercenary force so you know america
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america’s time is up this is my view i want cynthia and and brahmachalani and
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everyone to come on it because it’s a weakened power it truly does not have the capacity
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to respond militarily or with effectiveness what do you think cynthia
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uh unfortunately i agree with you uh because but when you look at the
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american response to russia it’s uh it’s part of a pattern
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that the biden regime has adopted towards uh countries and issues across
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the globe and also when you look at the broader picture of democratic
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governments and the relationships with russia they have been cheering for the
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bolshevik revolution in 1917 uh fdr was
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shamelessly allying with stalin and today he is continuing uh biden is
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continuing the same exact policy that democrats have adhered to
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since the since the bolshevik revolution so it’s nothing new under the sun except that is so much more brazen
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and the current situation with ukraine uh is we were just talking
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before that few months ago about about the shameful evacuation from afghanistan
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and americans are still stranded behind they turned the country into a jihadist
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military training camp with the help of pakistani intelligence and the qatari
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government turkey right now is getting ready uh to construct naval base in the
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occupied northern cyprus uh turkey is attacking yezidis and christians in iraq
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and they’re going after the kurds in syria uh it’s and and and they have waged war on
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armenia it’s it’s it’s a part of a larger pattern where they have disavowed
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this administration has disavowed every decent democratic and american and and
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and free value and its own uh basis of constitution and
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uh to uphold what is true and what is right what they’re doing with russia they’re
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doing across the board no the clear the decline of president uh
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joe biden’s uh cognitive functions is not a secret i
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look at this as part of barack obama’s third term uh that’s how i look at it if
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you remember in 2012 he was caught in on hot mike telling the russian president
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that he’s going to be more flexible after the election so is he being more flexible now through the through through
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the biden regime
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you know i this solid point there uh cynthia and and i was also thinking brahma
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that you know america’s time is up absolutely up it has been coming for a
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long time uh because the country is in decline its education system is in decline its its
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technology is repetitive its human resources are questionable its army is not tested but
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more importantly i think brahma also because and think about it viewers
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america depends on the world the world does not depend on america
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america overall as a country brahma is more dependent on the world than the world is dependent on america the whole
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balance is it america for example brahma is the largest importer of goods in the
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world it imports everything it it doesn’t make anything it just imports everything and it cannot take on
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china people say because it keeps importing from china eighteen percent ladies and gentlemen almost one-fifth
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of all incoming goods into america are from china
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and there’s obviously been a an absence of any thinking in america they haven’t taught brahma that if we
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continue to be a net importer of everything and we have terrible human resources and a demotivated force
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where will we be in 10 or 20 years so i think i don’t know but but but yeah
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our friend is from canada america is completely dependent on canada mexico
34:39
mexico is 14.8 of total trade so i would even say america needs mexico
34:46
more than mexico needs america but didn’t the americans see it coming
34:53
well the american power has been in relatively decline for a while now and that’s the reality
35:00
the u.s no longer can call the shots on its own it needs its allies and partners and
35:06
that reason why whatever actions pilon has been taking against russia have been
35:11
in coordination with allies and partners but there’s a bigger issue which is that
35:16
the present international crisis is bad news for virtually every country other than china
35:23
which is likely to emerge as a sole winner including sprinting itself at
35:28
america’s expense this is apparent to all except the us absolutely just said
35:35
which we know the u.s is said to accelerate its relative decline by aiding the faster rise of its main
35:40
challenger in fact zielinski’s own advisor
35:46
ustenko said perfect two days ago that china is the only winner from the war in ukraine
35:52
and and and and the fact is that uh that not only is china china the
35:58
only winner from from this crisis but there are also some larger issues that should worry us
36:04
the larger issues are at the way we are seeing illiberal trends now
36:10
in europe in in north america we have seen how the assets of russians are being
36:17
arbitrarily frozen in the way canada canada is trudeau without due process
36:22
throws the bank accounts or protesters and anyone who helped them in canada the same way
36:28
russians are being targeted even though the west has not had at war with ukraine
36:35
you know no westerners have been killed by the by russia and yet
36:40
there’s a systematic targeting of russians in fact
36:45
there’s state-driven anti-russian hate this is this is really um you know this
36:52
is not good for any liberal democracy and cutting off access to russia’s state-owned media as
37:00
the eu is doing raises the larger question uh yeah is the new area
37:06
already setting in motion the rise of illiberal democracies in the west we all talk about a rules-based order
37:13
but you know what we’re seeing of late is undermining the the rule of law
37:19
that’s not the way we should be going even though there is an aggression that needs to be condemned but
37:26
condemning that aggression does not mean that you curtail your civil liberties that you target one nationality that you
37:33
arbitrarily freeze assets of russians that’s not liberalism
37:44
yeah no i i think i think i think that’s that’s so true and you know uh
37:50
the fact is andrew you know it’s unfortunate that china is aiming to benefit from this
37:56
but bottom line is this brahma china
38:02
is a bigger economy russia is a smaller economy
38:08
the indian economy is far more effective far larger and far faster growing than russia’s so you can
38:15
do this to russia you know as a smaller economy tatyana you can
38:21
deal a blow to russia the americans can’t touch china the real test will be brahma
38:28
you know they have a trade surplus of china with america the china america needs china china does not need america
38:35
economically in fact america is totally dependent totally dependent on india for
38:41
it services you know america depends on china for minerals metals even antibiotics
38:48
everything so the so america is really weak ladies and gentlemen the point to be understood
38:56
uh uh you know uh dr dr dr wile awad is that all of this is happening when
39:02
america is at its weakest and the whole world asks why is america responding why isn’t america responding it’s not got to
39:08
do cynthia with the with the debate on the cognitive functions of a weak american president
39:15
it is to do with the essential weakness of america as a country as an economy
39:22
as a military i think that’s the point and i think dr awadh china
39:29
is is winning multiple games in one blow by pushing russia into this
39:35
battle but will it change the way the world operates
39:43
thank you ernab i think one american official said it once if the american people knows what their administration
39:50
is doing outside america they would have lynched the american presidents and their leaderships the
39:56
fact of the matter is that exceptionalism and unilateralism in the united states have been for so long they
40:02
have been you know violating the international law and i remember the iraqi especially envoy to united nation
40:08
that time when the united when u.s and uk invaded iraq uh and i was with the
40:13
american troop embedded he torn the international law and he throated the dustbin and apologized to his student
40:19
that he has been teaching international law so let’s not be breaching laws when you are not practicing that and you are
40:25
now saying that there is a people bleeding in ukraine i bleed for the ukrainian people i feel sad for them but
40:31
if you don’t feel sad for the millions of iraqis died in the american guns if you don’t feel sad for 21 million in
40:37
yemenis are suffering and are there starving and nobody’s bothering about it if you don’t bother about 5 million
40:43
syrians have been displaced and they’ve been used by arduino de facto khalifa then you are not a human being if you
40:49
don’t want if you want to talk humanity ask me about humanity i cover all these words i have seen the american pilots
40:55
firing at the iraqis return retreating powers into the second world second goal four and he what he was saying he feel
41:01
he feels sorry that he doesn’t have more ammunition to throw at the iraqi war when they have promised them that they
41:07
will not kill retreating iraqi soldiers so you wanted to tell me that you see a dead body you don’t see a building in
41:13
iraq was blown up you can see only dead but is burned out with the use of banned
41:18
phosphorus bomb you don’t come and tell me that united states is teaching us democracy and values that they have
41:24
upheld the american people if the american people love democracy we love the american people but they don’t know
41:29
what their administration is doing all around the world so i think the american exceptionalism era has been over and it
41:36
is the time for the 18th century russia china india and all these countries
41:41
eurasia to come together and give to the new world order the american and the western dominance in this
41:54
i i think uh you know uh you know dr abad i have severe
41:59
differences were you know with china and we all have as a country we have we
42:04
are against chinese expansionism that but my view is that matter doesn’t begin or end
42:11
with what is happening now and the americans have been trying to tell us uh dr awad for the last couple of weeks
42:18
watch out the chinese are not your friends we know the chinese are not you are not
42:23
our friends we know that there we are competitors geostrategically militarily and
42:28
economically and as india becomes greater we will become greater competitors but the question continues
42:34
to be on on the united states uh eric eric is there any thinking in the west
42:41
that why is the whole world beginning to you know when russia is bombing ukraine the whole world should be questioning
42:47
russia but interestingly more and more people are actually questioning america and
42:52
they are telling america no they’re telling america that didn’t your president donald trump stand there
43:00
like he’d won a boxing heavyweight gold medal and say i have i have eliminated
43:06
an iranian general called qasim soleimani that was a terrorist strike by america
43:12
america has no business ordering a strike on foreign soil
43:17
off off off of an iranian general but you did it and you thought you would
43:22
get away with it i met you know the america did is there going to be a rethinking eric
43:29
is there going to be a rethinking you think after all this i i think that um you know you are right
43:36
on at some points that now current uh us foreign policy i would say especially
43:43
uh starting under the donald trumps uh as as a presidency it’s not now
43:50
winning a whole lot of hearts uh so i i would i agree with this
43:56
point but at the same time i i think that now we are so focused
44:02
on what’s happening in in ukraine that we’re losing sight of of the of the
44:09
larger picture now i’ll remind you that we could very well have these discussions you know all the way back
44:16
1970s and 1970s you know that was it that was the end of american supremacy
44:23
and we all know what happened the 19 in the 1980s where um you know through a
44:28
concert of nations there was you know we uh there was the relaunch of of the
44:33
trade negotiations which led the creation of the uto obviously the fall of the soviet union
44:40
so what so i think that another point where i i do agree and again because
44:46
we’re so focusing on what’s happening in eastern europe i agree that you know the
44:52
you know if we’re talking about a germanic transition now we need to keep
44:58
our eyes on on asia so that’s where uh and but it’s
45:03
not going to be resolved uh in a matter of days on a matter of years even you
45:09
know and uh there’s still if we think about what you’re saying is yeah what you’re saying is that american
45:15
hegemony will be replaced by by chinese hegemony that’s your basic argument
45:21
uh you know uh andrew no that’s not my best andrew tell me andrew tell me tell
45:26
me if you let me if you let now if you let me finish i would say you know there are uh please you know
45:33
two there are two traps that we need to to avoid obviously the first trap is the
45:39
is twisted to this deities trap where uh it would be true confrontations between china china
45:46
doesn’t want immediate confrontation so uh china is looking a bit more on the long term that’s the first trap that you
45:54
know uh god saves us that we’re not gonna get into that the other trap is even more
45:59
dangerous and that’s what you are uh talking about here is what we call the
46:05
the kinder burger uh trap talking about now that the the the next few years will be like the
46:11
1930s what would be a void of leadership if there’s no leadership by the united states who else
46:19
can exert the leadership i’m hoping that it can be a concert of nations oh my god
46:25
okay so that is the
46:30
that is uh let me let me tell you one thing eric eric let me tell you one thing that is where i truly believe that
46:36
the americans are fooling themselves so much you have not been the leaders you are not the leaders you will not be the
46:43
leaders and i think that americans should stop fooling themselves and thinking that you know their superman
46:49
flies around the world we don’t need your superman and we are good enough to handle i mean how can you you’re a
46:54
country you tried to overthrow fidel castro’s government and i don’t you know what you did with panama just
47:01
to earn the profits from the operation of the canal you were even aiding terrorists there you know you are a weak country today
47:07
not you isn’t like you you’re in canada but america is a weak country andrew yeah andrew are you going to be
47:14
as nice to the russians when they are totally dependent on you for their food for their wheat for their oil imports
47:22
for their money for their credit cards when chinese companies will run every
47:27
aspect or even the internet connections when they’re going to be totally dependent on you and
47:32
as as some of our guests said in the previous debate that russia will be a dependency of china
47:38
uh will you continue to be you know so brotherly towards the russians because i don’t trust the
47:45
chinese at all and i’ve been saying the russians should never trust the chinese but i don’t think the russians have a choice anymore do they andrew
47:52
they have to trust you oh china and beijing uh
47:58
always looks at the world holistically and not only starting from one position
48:06
and then i think learning from what america has done i think beijing would
48:11
feel very foolish to replace america as the world henchmen
48:17
and i think the chinese policy has always been that is a
48:22
world of diversity there are different civilizations and there are a good civilization there is no such thing as
48:28
bad civilization there are good points and bad points about each civilization and then reach these civilizations
48:35
should respect other civilizations um in spite of its perceived
48:43
defects but should not use its power to impose
48:49
another governance or civilization on other countries and that’s the the the failing of the
48:56
united states now i i don’t agree that america is weak i i i think most chinese
49:03
and those of the leadership in beijing would accept that america still is the biggest
49:08
is the strongest nation on earth because it is separated by two oceans it’s very
49:13
rich in natural resources his military is still unchallenged and is a group of
49:18
which cannot be replicated by china and he has got the mighty dollar but in spite of
49:24
all that i think america has squandered his leadership uh
49:30
a by trying to impose its electoral uh kind of uh model on other countries
49:38
which accept that and and creating a lot of havoc around the world
49:45
now funnily enough to talk about the ukraine crisis in fact that we will look at the um coventry in the united states
49:52
now they’re always they’re all robbing they’ve been rubbing their hands and say wow this is the godsend to american
49:59
leadership look at how the americans succeed succeeded in rallying at the entire
50:05
european union and in spite of all the divisions over ukraine but this is only one-sided
50:12
um picture but as pointed out in this panel america has been squandering its leadership
50:20
and has exposed um is a false mental of trying to use the
50:26
mental of democracy to to achieve well quite clearly well clearly i i’d say to you
50:32
i’d say from from everything we are hearing momentarily momentarily
50:44
momentarily russia is stronger economically china will overtake
50:49
uh america strategically nato is a flop
50:55
markets wise the dollar is dying and fact of the matter is ladies and
51:01
gentlemen there’s a massive shift in the world order let’s face it i shall see you tomorrow at 8 we’ll have a special
51:07
edition of the debate looking at the breaking news coming in from ukraine having round table discussions and of
51:13
course the latest breaking news all over the country till tomorrow evening for a special edition at 8. good night and
51:19
goodbye [Music]
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